It's about damn time! Finally! Some progress with parking regulations.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
There is a God!
Bill
· 2 years ago
Read: meters. You knew there was a catch here.
Ed
· 2 years ago
Bill is right. Nyet to meters.
Also, many M-F no parking spots should be changed. Whats the deal, for instance, with only 3 or so spots on Front near Washington that allows parking anytime except for Tues morning. That should be extended, it seems, all along Front St. well past Starbucks.
Mike
· 2 years ago
Why do you drive? Why do you care? Living in New York and driving is missing the whole point.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
hey mike, first you think those bums aren't drug addicts, now you're annoyed that people have cars. you are obviously not a native just a punk. You know what? I'm glad you don't have a car, I have 2(two) cars. At least I know my footprint is being balanced by you. Thanks
Mike
· 2 years ago
No idea what you're talking about regarding bums. Perhaps you're thinking of a different Mike.
Cars are profoundly anti-urban. Expecting to leave them on public streets for free is even more so.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
Free? everyone who owns a car pays taxes, fees Etc. Gas is the only thing sold that has tax included. I'm not sure but I'll bet a $3 gallon of gas has at least a dollar tax on it or more! Hardly free parking. What is your definition of "urban" Is Lex and 96th st. the same as Bayridge? Do you propose a committee to determine when a neighborhood is urban or suburban. Even your definition is not the same as the Mayor's.
heinz
· 2 years ago
Mike why don't you stop sticking up for those bums. Seriously.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
he sticks up for the bums because they don't own cars.
Anon
· 2 years ago
When I lived in Minneapolis, my roommate and best friend was a huge proponent of public transportation. Cars were evil and unnecessary. Until his brother gave him his old car. All of a sudden, he realized how much public transportation sucked. How being able to get up and go when you wanted to, not because some bus schedule, that was bound to be off, dictated it. And just because someone lives in DUMBO doesn't mean their entire life is spent in a zone that is accessible by public transportation. Some people actually work places that they have to drive to. I have family I visit frequently all over the tri-state area in places that just are not accessible by public transportation (not to mention the restrictions public transportation has on pets and the fun of lugging large objects or multiple bags on a bus or subway) and zip cars are way too rigid to be a good option. While I garage my car (I like my bumpers the way they are) there are days when we're running around with the car when it easier to leave her on the street for a while. Also, when friends and family come to visit (you don't think my 90+year old grandmother should have to take the A train from Queens, do you) I hate to think that they have to pay to park.
Mike
· 2 years ago
No, seriously, what are you talking about regarding sticking up for bums? This is the first post on this blog I've ever commented on.
Why exactly should free parking be a right? Do you expect a free apartment too? What makes the street any different?
And there are nowhere near a dollar of taxes on a gallon of gas. What taxes there are come nowhere near covering the externalities of your car. Do some research before making up numbers like that.
tards
· 2 years ago
You're 90yo grandma should not have to ride the train. Just buy a Prius.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
city,state and fed tax on gas in ny is about 60 cents. Not a dollar but still alot. Because there is no meter doesn't mean there is free parking. If you think cars are hostile then parking is not the problem. The only thing that "charging" for parking will do is remove the poor and middle class from the streets and leave more room for Hummers and commuters from the suburbs. Speaking of making up numbers, what exactly are the externalities of my car that taxes don't cover. Is it just a little anti-urban to drive a car in Bayridge and does it become more hostile as you drive that car toward Manhattan?
Emma
· 2 years ago
Mike - the bums can't afford cars. I'm sure they appreciate your support.
T bone
· 2 years ago
I used to think having a car in the city was stupid and a waste... until I started dating someone who owned a car. Then I married him, not entirely for his car, but maybe a little. :)
I have family we visit a lot on the weekends and there is no way we could do that with our dog using public transport. Not to mention trips to Costco.
Why should we have to pay to park on the street in a city, but not in the suburbs? I don't understand that logic. And I don't believe in paying $400 to park my somewhat old and beat up car in a fancy garage.
adam
· 2 years ago
"Why should we have to pay to park on the street in a city, but not in the suburbs?"
think about that.
why should anything be different or cost more in they city? because the city and suburbs are vastly different environments. space is one of the most valuable commodities in an urban setting and you don't have to look far for evidence of this (see 350k cabanas). why is it surprising that you should pay for space to keep your private vehicle? I don't understand your logic. the city is not the same as suburbs (thank god), though many people are doing their best to change this.
"The only thing that “charging” for parking will do is remove the poor and middle class from the streets and leave more room for Hummers and commuters from the suburbs."
Who are these poor and middle class car owners?
"Is it just a little anti-urban to drive a car in Bayridge and does it become more hostile as you drive that car toward Manhattan?"
Yes. As population density increases. The reasoning is clear, no?
Robin
· 2 years ago
Good points, Adam.
Paul I Staker
· 2 years ago
So what effect does bum density have on the cost of space? I would say that this is actually a negative factor. The cost of space rises with the increase in population, but is kept in check by the number of bums on the streets. Therefore, if Prof Harold Hill and T-Bone want an area with cheap parking AND high population density, they should find a populated area full of bums. Perhaps staying in Bumbo is actually the best solution after all!
T bone
· 2 years ago
I've thought about it, Adam, and I just happen to disagree with you. Yes, some things will inevitably cost more in a city, but parking on public streets should not be one of them (in my opinion). You should pay for space if you want to keep your vehicle in a private garage.
As the population increases so does the amount of people paying taxes. We already pay for the streets, why should we also pay to park on them?
T bone
· 2 years ago
I should add- the real price you pay for parking on the street in the city is having to drive around looking for a space, unlike in the suburbs. Isn't that enough?
h. Hill
· 2 years ago
It comes back to this. Up until about a year ago we could park anywhere in this neighborhood. Plenty of room until all you hand ringing clowns moved in and started navel gazing. My kids grew up playing in the wrecked trucks sitting in the parking lot that they built that pile of crap called J condo. It wasn't anti urban, frankly it was the only sign that this place was occupied 10 years ago. So all you J Condoers enjoy your "first Fridays" and dream about your move to the burbs when the bums take over, Mike.
h. Hill
· 2 years ago
hand wringing
Tim
· 2 years ago
Parking in the city is a limited resource, unlike in the suburbs. That means that every time you use a parking space, a cost is incurred by the other residents of the city (that cost being 'a fewer number of parking spaces'). This is called an externality. In order to promote the efficient use of these spaces, it makes perfect sense to charge for them. The correct amount to charge depends directly on the number of people relative to the number of parking spaces, ie the population density. Not charging for the spaces would lead to there being too many marginal car owners and greater congestion.
?
· 2 years ago
Street parking creates a nice revenue stream for a city. Whether you're feeding meter or paying a ticket or towing fee you're effectively paying the city a tax for the privilege of keeping your car parked on its streets. Just like if you want to smoke in NY you're going to have to pony up a few extra bucks to buy a pack of cigarettes here. The idea that street parking should be free (and also totally unregulated, I would assume? because it can easily cost more to park on the street than it does to pay a garage in this tow happy neighborhood) speaks of a weird kind of suburban entitlement.
Jerry
· 2 years ago
Did anyone see the giant rat outside J-condo last night? Was that another peculiar design feature for Busta's apartment (to go with the mosaic self-portrait in a riding outfit), or is there another explanation?
Enrico
· 2 years ago
Donde esta Dumbo y quien es 'Smokey'? Soy periodista en Espana.
T bone
· 2 years ago
Of course they should be regulated! Tickets and towing fees of course. And certainly meters on some main streets where parking needs to be regulated by the hour. They have that in the suburbs too!
Meters on SOME spots are one thing. For example, in much of Manhattan the avenues have meters, and the streets don't. I am, personally, not saying there should not be meters on, say, parts of Front Street. I just don't agree with making people pay to park on all public streets, regardless of where you live. More congestion leads to more people willing to pay for a parking garage. It also leads to those who don't want to pay for a garage spending more and more time looking for a space. To me that is the cost incurred.
By the way, in a year and a half of parking on the street in Dumbo, we've gotten only two tickets and never been towed, so our experience has been quite different than others. (knock on wood)
Alexandra
· 2 years ago
All you yuppies complaining about parking.. There were plenty of parking spaces before you arrived! Why not knock down a few art galleries to build a car park? I'm sure that would be a very popular measure among the newbies
Dirk
· 2 years ago
Alexandra, that's a great idea!
I propose we start with Jan Larsen's Gallery.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
truth is. we didn.t have any bums here either. come to think of it no smallpox or influenza. the french bulldogs, so many.
?
· 2 years ago
Alexandra, don't be silly. We yuppies wouldn't knock down an art gallery for more parking. That would devalue our condos!
thats Mr. Cracky to you
· 2 years ago
as a rule I find that most yuppies are less educated than the average white artist that they have replaced. They go to the opening for the cheap white wine but seldom go after that. Most of the newbies would rather blow me behind Peas and Pickles.
adam
· 2 years ago
@T-bone: "We already pay for the streets... "
That's not even close to true. If it were, I'd say you're (you as in all drivers) doing a poor job -- see all the streets in disrepair.
"I should add- the real price you pay for parking on the street in the city is having to drive around looking for a space... "
No, that's the real cost you inflict on your neighbors who have to breathe the pollution your car creates as you circle the block. Get out of your car and look at it from another perspective. If the city charged for parking space closer to its value there would be fewer drivers and less searching for spots.
@Robin: Thanks.
prof h. hill
· 2 years ago
is it fair that my father who lives in upstate NY helps subsidize the mta with his taxes? Are you, adam going to a meaningful job on the train? Can you justify taking money from the rural poor in order for you to go to your job at Kinkos's or maybe worst a currency trader on wall street? For the most part the "market" takes care of the parking problem. If cars are anti-urban are baby strollers pro-urban? Having to walk in the street because a pair of twins are barreling down Front St. in their side by side puts my life at risk more than a little car exhaust.
adam
· 2 years ago
in the order posed: no no (I ride a bike) no (not applicable) yes (strollers means walking which is clearly an urban activity)
I hate oversize strollers too but is it the stroller that puts your life in danger or the speeding vehicle?
"For the most part the “market” takes care of the parking problem."
How so? Are you saying that a bureaucracy-controlled commodity like on-street parking is exposed to market forces? That doesn't make sense. If the "market" took care of the parking problem (which obviously hasn't happened or we wouldn't be talking here) there would be no free parking in NYC.
By the way, your guesses at my occupation are laughable.
T bone
· 2 years ago
Adam- I pay taxes. Not my fault the streets are in disrepair.
My point is, I don't mind looking for a spot as long as I don't have to pay for it. Otherwise, I would pay for a garage. If you have such a problem with pollution from cars, perhaps you shouldn't live in a city. Besides, the pollution from my car, which I only use on weekends, if that, is nothing compared to the people who commute by car every day. Perhaps you should be bitching to them, not me.
Sorry, but I just disagree with you on this one.
adam
· 2 years ago
I bitch (and act to limit) needless car use all the time.
"If you have such a problem with pollution from cars, perhaps you shouldn’t live in a city."
How is that a worthwhile suggestion? How about... If you have such a problem with paying for a parking spot, perhaps you shouldn't live in a city. See? Comments like that are pretty silly.
"I pay taxes."
Awesome. Me too. But you suggested that this fact should entitle you to free parking and use of city streets and I was intimating that tax dollars don't even come close to covering the true cost of private auto use. Their state of disrepair is one clue among many that your taxes do not cover that cost.
Kudos for limiting your driving to the weekends though.
It's obvious you disagree. I just don't think your points are really valid or cognizant of the whole picture.
KD
· 2 years ago
Adam is so smaaaart. We been schooled!
: ) I'm just playing.
to KD
· 2 years ago
the way adam knows which lines to dissect and prove the original poster wrong is brilliant. but don't take my word for it, i might get quoted and he'll prove me wrong.
T bone
· 2 years ago
My points ARE valid, Adam. They are my opinion. I believe that I should be able to park on public streets. I believe some streets should have meters and some not. That's the way it works in many places, so you may disagree with me, but my point is not invalid. I believe that my tax dollars (and yours) should entitle me to use public streets. It is not my fault that our government wastes our tax dollars and does not put them to good use much of the time.
I agree that my one point was silly. That was kind of the point of it. So many suggestions posted on this blog are downright silly- like saying that driving is anti-urban. Or for example, it is also silly to complain that my circling the block looking for a space is a huge source of pollution.
Like I said, I am sorry I disagree with you, but I don't think that makes my points invalid, nor does it make yours invalid. Unlike you, I don't think the simple fact that you disagree makes your opinion invalid.
T bone
· 2 years ago
what I meant to say is my tax dollars (and yours) should entitle both of us to use public streets.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
It is so easy to argue hypothetically about cars being anti urban. Adam, you should define in a practical way, so we may adhere or not adhere, to your rule. Do you include all of NYC or just the area you are riding your bike through at any given time. Cars are a necessary nuisance for many of us. For you to argue with that is just being naive. I can argue that air conditioning is anti urban. To somebody without AC listening to my AC all night it probably is very “anti urban”. There are many things that annoy us about living in an urban environment, but they are annoyances and not anti urban. Most of us are here because we enjoy (and hate) the anarchy.
Prof. Harold Hill
· 2 years ago
You know you have two arguments here. You are saying that cars are antiurban and we should charge for space on the street. I would argue that guns are also aniturban but if we tax or charge a high price for the bullets you too can own a gun. I presume you agree that both cars and guns have the potential to kill us. Do you want to eliminate cars or do you want to reserve space for all those commuters. How much should we charge for those free spaces on Front St? What should we do with all that money? Free day care center for crack (or Cracky’s) babies? How about a senior center for old yuppies. Better yet, let’s just set up an open tab at ReBar for all us bike riding fools.
Jonboy
· 2 years ago
Adam is a tree-hugging, cycling, vegan tosser.
adam
· 2 years ago
@T-bone: I believe that parking should cost $10,000 a month. So what? As far as I can tell, your opinions on this matter are totally based on some suburban reality you once knew. Let it go. Stop trying to turn the city into the suburbs.
@Harold I'm not declaring a rule when I say that cars are anti-urban. Use common sense and figure out for yourself the practical uses for private vehicle in this city. I understand that cars are a necessity for some but it's a luxury for most and so I'm not going to feel empathy when parking regulations are implemented.
"Do you want to eliminate cars or do you want to reserve space for all those commuters"
I don't understand this question... will you explain?
"How much should we charge for those free spaces on Front St?"
Let the market decide and direct all proceeds to DOT projects, obviously. Or open tab for cyclists... either is okay with me.
@Jonboy: hugs and kisses!
Robin
· 2 years ago
DUMBO needs more Adams.
T bone
· 2 years ago
Adam- I don't know what makes you think I am trying to turn the city into the suburbs. Whatever that means. Just because I don't think I should have to pay to park on ALL city streets? I think you are taking this way too far. I am sorry you have such a problem with someone disagreeing with you.
My opinion is simply that I pay A LOT of money in taxes (In fact, I pay a NYC tax that people in the suburbs don't) and I feel my taxes should cover parking on some public streets, as long as I adhere to the rules and regulations (including having meters on some main streets, which as I have stated before, I agree with). I don't know how that is based in some "suburban reality". Most of the city is actually set up that way! You think I should pay more for parking on all city streets, and that is your opinion, which as I have stated before, I am totally fine with. I just disagree.
JJJJJJ
· 2 years ago
OK! You disagree. Now both of you just shut the hell up!
And, actually, yes, it IS the people's fault if our government isn't spending our tax dollars the way we'd like. They don't elect themselves (George Bush's win in 2000 notwithstanding).
adam
· 2 years ago
Hi JJJJJJ! I agree with you!
shhhhh.
T bone
· 2 years ago
I couldn't agree more! I am so sick of this whole thing. I am sorry I ever posted to begin with. I would have stopped posting on this parking issue a lONG time ago, if Adam had not continued to post remarks instead of just accepting that I have a differing opinion on the matter. Sorry if I feel the need to defend myself.
My one vote does not put anyone in office, by the way! I can not control how the entire government operates and spends my tax money, as much as I would like to.
mike d
· 2 years ago
Please don't confuse me with Mike. He's a bum. There's free parking in every neighborhood in Manhattan, possibly North America's most definitive "urban" area. They happen to be residential neighborhoods, with alternate side parking rules to clean them, but free. And there's a lot of 'em. Problem here is, as I see it, is Front St. part of a residental or commercial neighborhood? Since I live on Front St. I like to think of it as residential, but I'm a newbie yuppy louse who moved here to ruin this obviously open minded neighborhood with my double wide stroller.
All Comments
Also, many M-F no parking spots should be changed. Whats the deal, for instance, with only 3 or so spots on Front near Washington that allows parking anytime except for Tues morning. That should be extended, it seems, all along Front St. well past Starbucks.
Cars are profoundly anti-urban. Expecting to leave them on public streets for free is even more so.
And just because someone lives in DUMBO doesn't mean their entire life is spent in a zone that is accessible by public transportation. Some people actually work places that they have to drive to. I have family I visit frequently all over the tri-state area in places that just are not accessible by public transportation (not to mention the restrictions public transportation has on pets and the fun of lugging large objects or multiple bags on a bus or subway) and zip cars are way too rigid to be a good option. While I garage my car (I like my bumpers the way they are) there are days when we're running around with the car when it easier to leave her on the street for a while. Also, when friends and family come to visit (you don't think my 90+year old grandmother should have to take the A train from Queens, do you) I hate to think that they have to pay to park.
Why exactly should free parking be a right? Do you expect a free apartment too? What makes the street any different?
And there are nowhere near a dollar of taxes on a gallon of gas. What taxes there are come nowhere near covering the externalities of your car. Do some research before making up numbers like that.
I have family we visit a lot on the weekends and there is no way we could do that with our dog using public transport. Not to mention trips to Costco.
Why should we have to pay to park on the street in a city, but not in the suburbs? I don't understand that logic. And I don't believe in paying $400 to park my somewhat old and beat up car in a fancy garage.
think about that.
why should anything be different or cost more in they city? because the city and suburbs are vastly different environments. space is one of the most valuable commodities in an urban setting and you don't have to look far for evidence of this (see 350k cabanas). why is it surprising that you should pay for space to keep your private vehicle? I don't understand your logic. the city is not the same as suburbs (thank god), though many people are doing their best to change this.
"The only thing that “charging” for parking will do is remove the poor and middle class from the streets and leave more room for Hummers and commuters from the suburbs."
Who are these poor and middle class car owners?
"Is it just a little anti-urban to drive a car in Bayridge and does it become more hostile as you drive that car toward Manhattan?"
Yes. As population density increases. The reasoning is clear, no?
As the population increases so does the amount of people paying taxes. We already pay for the streets, why should we also pay to park on them?
Meters on SOME spots are one thing. For example, in much of Manhattan the avenues have meters, and the streets don't. I am, personally, not saying there should not be meters on, say, parts of Front Street. I just don't agree with making people pay to park on all public streets, regardless of where you live. More congestion leads to more people willing to pay for a parking garage. It also leads to those who don't want to pay for a garage spending more and more time looking for a space. To me that is the cost incurred.
By the way, in a year and a half of parking on the street in Dumbo, we've gotten only two tickets and never been towed, so our experience has been quite different than others. (knock on wood)
I propose we start with Jan Larsen's Gallery.
"We already pay for the streets... "
That's not even close to true. If it were, I'd say you're (you as in all drivers) doing a poor job -- see all the streets in disrepair.
"I should add- the real price you pay for parking on the street in the city is having to drive around looking for a space... "
No, that's the real cost you inflict on your neighbors who have to breathe the pollution your car creates as you circle the block. Get out of your car and look at it from another perspective. If the city charged for parking space closer to its value there would be fewer drivers and less searching for spots.
@Robin:
Thanks.
no
no (I ride a bike)
no (not applicable)
yes (strollers means walking which is clearly an urban activity)
I hate oversize strollers too but is it the stroller that puts your life in danger or the speeding vehicle?
"For the most part the “market” takes care of the parking problem."
How so? Are you saying that a bureaucracy-controlled commodity like on-street parking is exposed to market forces? That doesn't make sense. If the "market" took care of the parking problem (which obviously hasn't happened or we wouldn't be talking here) there would be no free parking in NYC.
By the way, your guesses at my occupation are laughable.
My point is, I don't mind looking for a spot as long as I don't have to pay for it. Otherwise, I would pay for a garage. If you have such a problem with pollution from cars, perhaps you shouldn't live in a city. Besides, the pollution from my car, which I only use on weekends, if that, is nothing compared to the people who commute by car every day. Perhaps you should be bitching to them, not me.
Sorry, but I just disagree with you on this one.
"If you have such a problem with pollution from cars, perhaps you shouldn’t live in a city."
How is that a worthwhile suggestion? How about... If you have such a problem with paying for a parking spot, perhaps you shouldn't live in a city. See? Comments like that are pretty silly.
"I pay taxes."
Awesome. Me too. But you suggested that this fact should entitle you to free parking and use of city streets and I was intimating that tax dollars don't even come close to covering the true cost of private auto use. Their state of disrepair is one clue among many that your taxes do not cover that cost.
Kudos for limiting your driving to the weekends though.
It's obvious you disagree. I just don't think your points are really valid or cognizant of the whole picture.
: ) I'm just playing.
I agree that my one point was silly. That was kind of the point of it. So many suggestions posted on this blog are downright silly- like saying that driving is anti-urban. Or for example, it is also silly to complain that my circling the block looking for a space is a huge source of pollution.
Like I said, I am sorry I disagree with you, but I don't think that makes my points invalid, nor does it make yours invalid. Unlike you, I don't think the simple fact that you disagree makes your opinion invalid.
I believe that parking should cost $10,000 a month. So what? As far as I can tell, your opinions on this matter are totally based on some suburban reality you once knew. Let it go. Stop trying to turn the city into the suburbs.
@Harold
I'm not declaring a rule when I say that cars are anti-urban. Use common sense and figure out for yourself the practical uses for private vehicle in this city. I understand that cars are a necessity for some but it's a luxury for most and so I'm not going to feel empathy when parking regulations are implemented.
"Do you want to eliminate cars or do you want to reserve space for all those commuters"
I don't understand this question... will you explain?
"How much should we charge for those free spaces on Front St?"
Let the market decide and direct all proceeds to DOT projects, obviously. Or open tab for cyclists... either is okay with me.
@Jonboy:
hugs and kisses!
My opinion is simply that I pay A LOT of money in taxes (In fact, I pay a NYC tax that people in the suburbs don't) and I feel my taxes should cover parking on some public streets, as long as I adhere to the rules and regulations (including having meters on some main streets, which as I have stated before, I agree with). I don't know how that is based in some "suburban reality". Most of the city is actually set up that way! You think I should pay more for parking on all city streets, and that is your opinion, which as I have stated before, I am totally fine with. I just disagree.
And, actually, yes, it IS the people's fault if our government isn't spending our tax dollars the way we'd like. They don't elect themselves (George Bush's win in 2000 notwithstanding).
shhhhh.
My one vote does not put anyone in office, by the way! I can not control how the entire government operates and spends my tax money, as much as I would like to.
There's free parking in every neighborhood in Manhattan, possibly North America's most definitive "urban" area. They happen to be residential neighborhoods, with alternate side parking rules to clean them, but free. And there's a lot of 'em.
Problem here is, as I see it, is Front St. part of a residental or commercial neighborhood? Since I live on Front St. I like to think of it as residential, but I'm a newbie yuppy louse who moved here to ruin this obviously open minded neighborhood with my double wide stroller.